By Enrique Tessieri
Perussuomalaiset (PS) councilman for Kotka, Freddy Van Wonterghem got slapped with a 420-euro fine for inciting ethnic hatred against a group, according to Kymen Sanomat. While the fine is small compared with PS MP James Hirvisaari’s 1,424 euros in December, it is symbolic and reveals, albeit modestly, that Finland has the teeth to stand up against hate speech.
Van Wonterghem, like his PS anti-immigration hardliners, are shameful cases of how low some members of our society can stoop. The Belgian-born naturalized Finn is a Holocaust denier as well.
One of the matters that far-right extremists do in Finland and elsewhere is move the goalposts to suit their myopic view of the world. They try, with their pitiful arguments, to make racism and social exclusion of other groups “normal.”
Here is an example of the typical double-talk of the far right coming straight from Van Wonterghem’s mouth: “I feel that I have been accused of something that I haven’t done [inciting ethnic hatred],” he was quoted as saying on Kymen Sanomat, “of offending Western concepts and Christian values.”
Sure, Van Wonterghem, believe anything you want. Our “Western concepts and Christian values” permit you to claim that it was ok to kill a Muslim woman because it would be one less person giving birth to a Muslim child.
Though smaller in total, Freddy van Wonterghem’s fine of €420 is actually more severe than the fine imposed on James Hirvisaari.
Hirvisaari’s penalty of €1425 was 25 day-fines at €57 per day, whereas van Wonterghem’s penalty of €420 was 35 day-fines at only €12 per day.
The size of a day-fine depends on a standardised formula for estimating the income that the offender would lose if imprisoned for one day. This mainly depends on the offender’s income after tax and mandatory contributions, minus a standard deduction and a further deduction for dependent children.
So much bashing for the Belgian Van Wonterghem. I see he doesn’t even have any Finnish background unlike you, Enrique. So that’s a bit xenophobic to attack him. I think every immigrant, including Wonterghem, is intitled to express their own opinions.
How much should the fine for hate speech be? And to whom it should be paid, the government?
Hi Namen and welcome to Migrant Tales. So, now I am “xenophobic” according to you because you approve a politician saying that it’s ok to kill a Muslim woman because it would be one less woman giving birth to a child of that religion?
I am always amazed by how people overlook the real issue: Do you approve that a person has a right to condone death of another human being in such a degrading way? That is the issue, nothing more. I personally believe it is not only wrong but shameful.
Namen: So much bashing for the Belgian Van Wonterghem. I see he doesn’t even have any Finnish background unlike you, Enrique. So that’s a bit xenophobic to attack him. I think every immigrant, including Wonterghem, is intitled to express their own opinions.
How much should the fine for hate speech be? And to whom it should be paid, the government?
nobody is bashing him, he is the one whose being a racist and hatefull against dark moslim minoroties so he can succeed and perhaps have a job in high office in Finland, so being P.S the largest party is his way up there, but luckily Soini had some senses to fie this Hypocrite facisct Foreigner, no he can go back to belgium and be a racist there. Bytheway , it don’t look like everyone has a free to express when some form of people are trying to shut down this blog.
Im glad this hypocrite was fined, i been to his blog the guy is a hardcore racist, he found P.S and saw same idiology in them and a way of success by attacking dark skinned moslim immigrants can you believe that. Nowadays it seems though attacking darkskin and moslim imigrants is way of success, you may end up in a high position if you profess of attacking somalis and moslims.
D4R, people like Van Wonterghem as a good example of not only the anti-immigrant but anti-Muslim stance of the PS.
M.T: D4R, people like Van Wonterghem as a good example of not only the anti-immigrant but anti-Muslim stance of the PS.
Totally right, i hope now he can go back to Belgium and stay there.
Yes, Enrique, the original question is though, why you defend the opinion that flogging raped women to death is OK?
Now the flogging case had actually happened in Bangladesh, a 14-year old girl that had been raped was flogged to death for adultery and the cause of death was written down as “suicide”.
This case was brought in in some comments in a discussion, “Taha Islam” defending this sharia verdict (flogging for adultery). Wontergehem said was that “in saudi arabia (sic) they can do whatever they want in their own country, adding that the only positive outcome is that theres less women to breed.
Which is maybe a nasty thing to say, but the logical truth. If you have a society killing their women, eventually theres no more offspring in the society.
I highly doubt Wontergehem advocates sharia courts passing flogging sentences to 14-year old girls getting flogged. However, Enrique, it seems you do.
And Enrique, you are all about cultural diversity and multiculturalism. So why is it then wrong if Muslims kill a woman in the name of islam? Is it not their religion, their culture and their law? You are also advocating this in Finland, just like that other blogger defending sharia courts. So I kind of miss your point in the argument, except it was a PerSu politician who got a political sentence. What he said was in “bad taste” – that is not criminal. You however do not condemn the flogging in any of your posts – no outrage whatsoever. However when the PerSu politicians comment on this, you do make a post, claiming that their opinions are illegal. Some double standards you have there.
Allan
Your logic is impeccable. You ask “why is it then wrong if Muslims kill a woman in the name of islam? Is it not their religion, their culture and their law? ”
Our society has the highest rate of murder in western Europe. Most of these murders are what I describe as honour killings by natives like you and me who felt a need to defend their honour by killing their girlfriend, wife and children.
The definition of honour killing is “the homicide of a member of a family or social group by other members, due to the belief of the perpetrators that the victim has brought dishonor upon the family or community. ”
Is it our religion that compels us to kill? Is it perhaps something in our culture that encourages and condones this kind of killing by making the excuse that the perpetrator was drunk when doing it? Why is the law so lax in prosecuting killers?
Statistics show that in homicides 61 to 75 percent, in attempted homicides 71 to 78 percent the person was under the influence of alcohol. Why don’t PS politicians focus on major problems in our society like alcoholism? People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones.
And Enrique, it has been proven without a doubt in the comment section of your previous post, that Wontergehem is not a “holocaust denier”. Why do you continue fabricating these lies?
Why don’t you answer me Allan. Are you not a man?
Freddy Van Wonterghem used the same argument used by Holocaust deniers that the numbers are inflated and that the Holocaust was nothing but Soviet propaganda. This is a common tactic employed by Holocaust deniers on the internet.
http://www.iltalehti.fi/vaalit/2011040513383802_vl.shtml
This is James Hirvisaari and Jussi Halla-Aho’s good friend and colleague, a fellow member of Suomen Sisu, an organisation that stands against “unnatural mixing of the races with each other.” and he is cosigner of the PS Vaali manifesti http://vaalimanifesti.fi/index.php/allekirjoittajat
BlandaUpp – so you are denying the well-known fact that post-war Soviet propaganda inflated the numbers of Auschwitz? So this then means the people running the Auschwitz museum are holocaust-deniers because they are not using the Soviet propaganda figures? Besides which that Iltalehti article is oproven to be a misrepresentation of what Wontergehem actually said, which sources are available. For those who can actually read.
You still haven’t answered my first response to you Allan.
I can now tick you down as a Holocaust denier as well. Thank you for clarifying that you agree with Van Wonterghem and every Neo-Nazi group out there today that 6 million Jews didn’t die in the Holocaust.
You also don’t have a problem with Van Wonterghem and his PS buddied belonging to Suomen Sisu which is against “unnatural mixing of the races with each other.”.
Thanks for exposing your true colurs.
Allan
I never figured you for a holocaust denier.
Let’s hear what you consider to be the facts about the Shoa. Then we can compare your opinion to that of FvW and challenge you both to repeat your views publicly for the cameras at Brandenburger Tor.
If you’ve got the guts.
BlandaUpp & Justicedemon. Show where I have “denied the holocaust”. Please note fabrications in your own mind do not count. I stated a fact – try to read what I wrote and not your imagination. I know that is hard for that amoeba you use as a braincell.
So, BlandaUpp, please confirm you are saying the Auschwitz holocaust memorial is a holocaust denial site? JusticeDemon wants you to tell that to cameras on Brandenburger Tor.
Yes BlandaUpp, your original question: “Is it our religion that compels us to kill? Is it perhaps something in our culture that encourages and condones this kind of killing by making the excuse that the perpetrator was drunk when doing it?”
Well, we do not have in our criminal law anything that allows this, or gives it as an excuse, so I totally fail to see your point. It may be something in the culture, but it is not by any means condoned.
“Why is the law so lax in prosecuting killers?”
Thats all due to the changes you communists did in the 70’s.
Allan
I noticed that you sidestepped the question.
Let’s hear what you consider to be the facts about the Shoa.
JD, try attending Finnish iltalukio for example if you have trouble with history teaching from your own background.
I want BlandaUpp to answer first.
Allan
Are you afraid to answer the question?
Do your hommaforum buddies keep you under surveillance here?
You claim that you are not a holocaust denier. Let’s hear what you consider to be the facts about the Shoa.
I want BlandaUpp to stand up with his claims first how the Auschwitz museum is a holocaust denial site.
Meanwhile, you can go read wikipedia.
Hi Allan.
Wikipedia is your level?? Whoaaaaah!!
Well the Yad Vashem agrees with the Wikipedia numbers, so are you claiming that also they are holocaust denialists? Man, dig in, you’ll be in China soon.
Allan
You are still dodging the question.
Are you saying that the details of the Shoa in the Wikipedia article are correct?
Why can’t you state your position plainly? Why all the prevarication?
Poor old Allan – on the one hand there is your credibility here, and on the other there are your thug buddies from hommaforum (or is it the BNP now?) ready to rearrange your facial features. What’s a poor boy to do?
JD – are you then saying they are incorrect? Maybe you should go correct them then.
Plainly stated: BlandaUpp needs to come here to explain why Soviet propaganda figures of Auschwitz are the correct ones, and thus I, Frddy Wontergehem and the Auschwitz museum are all holocaust deniers. Thats all.
I don’t need an apology, but Freddy and the Auschwitz museum might want one.
Allan
You are still not answering the question.
You resemble an alcoholic responding to a question about whether you have been drinking again. Your responses are all about where you have been, how the decor has changed, who you met, how they are doing, what you discussed, what the weather was like, what you plan to do tomorrow, and why do you keep hearing the same question over and over.
How many Jews were killed in the Shoa, Allan? Make your choice: your reputation here or the reprisals of your hommaforum buddies.
BlandaUpp
”Why don’t PS politicians focus on major problems in our society like alcoholism?”
So you say one party should do so? How mamny parties haven’t focused on this, unsuccessfully? It wasn’t in the manifest you produced.
”Most of these murders are what I describe as honour killings by natives like you and me who felt a need to defend their honour by killing their girlfriend, wife and children. ”
Do you have evidence for this?
“How many Jews were killed in the Shoa, Allan? ”
Nobody knows the exact figure. If you do, please tell.
Allan
You weren’t asked for an exact figure.
Why not just round it off to the nearest million?
Now answer the question. It’s time to choose between your credibility here and the continued indulgence of your thug buddies.