Comment: Here is a good example of the political opportunism of the True Finns. They are using every dirty tricks in the book to get attention to their mono-campaign platform. Jussi Halla-aho alleged that the amount of refugees to the country has (hold your breaths!) risen by four-fold during the present government. He, however, forgets to use the 2010 figure, which falls by 33.8% from the previous year.
Suomen Kuvalehti states in the article below that the figures provided by Halla-aho are misleading. If we look at asylum seekers given refugee status between 2000 and 2010, we see a 25% rise.
The interesting question to ask about Halla-aho’s claim is a big “so what?” What if the amount of refugees has risen? Even if they have, you can never compare with Sweden or Norway, which take in many more refugees than Finland. Is Halla-aho trying to make it a crime to take refugees to Finland?
Furthermore, what is the point? Oh yes, I understand. Halla-aho wants to show us at all costs that the Finnish authorities are a bunch of incompetent softies that let in criminals to the country and that immigrants living in Finland are suspect. If he gets elected, he’ll set the refugee and immigrant house in order.
God help us.
Update (10.2): Here is another True Finns Halla-aho follower, Freddy Van Wonterghem, who only conveniently publishes the 2009 figures. These types of tricks by the True Finns’ candidates have one aim: to secure votes and spread fear. You can read his blog by clicking here.
__________
Jukka Ukkola
Väite:
Turvapaikanhakijoiden määrä on nelinkertaistunut nykyisen hallituksen aikana.
Perussuomalaisten helsinkiläinen kansanedustajaehdokas Jussi Halla-aho on väittänyt blogissaan otsikolla Tiedote eduskuntavaaleihin 2011 liittyen, että turvapaikanhakijoiden määrä on nelinkertaistunut vuodesta 2007, jolloin nykyinen hallitus aloitti toimintansa.
To keep on reading click here.
I would personally welcome the True Finns gaining a large enough number of seats in the Parliamentary elections because, for once in this country’s history, Finland would stop pretending that it has any humanitarian streak whatsoever and it would stop accepting immigrants that it’s factually unable to integrate. It would also force Finns to lower their employment expectations and train more Finns to take the plethora of vocational school -level jobs that this country cannot fill due to labor shortage in those sectors, because everyone and their mother aims for a PhD in whichever useless academic field that has society has no urgent need for, instead of training for vocational jobs that have a real demand on the market.
Hi Martin-Érik, you hit it on the nail. How is it possible that we have the best educational system in the world and then we have high unemployment in the 15-24-age braket? It is a pradox but shows that possibly a lot of vocational and high education institutions are not in tune with the needs of the labor market.
Why doesn’t Finland put out a sign stating that it does not want immigrants. We’d save everyone a lot of pain. This is pretty drastic but I still have, however, faith that things will change. The True Finns a la Halla-aho, Hirvisaari and others are a frightening view of the historical baggage Finland carries from murkier times.
I’m not afraid of Halla-Aho or the True Finns, quite the contrary. Their accession to power would bring a dose of badly-needed pragmatism to this country. That it would close the door to immigration is actually a good thing, because it would force this country to actually make Finns accept jobs that they would rather let the “unqualified” immigrants do instead of them and for a ridiculously lower pay than what Finns would ask. Remove that endless supply of cheap labor and suddenly this country will be forced to rely upon its own local resources, which will also lower the unemployment rate.
For example, when the S Group asked Opteam to find them cooks for their various theme restaurants, the first thing that Opteam did was to ask the employment office for a list of all unemployed Finnish cooks. They got a list of 140 names and invited all of them to apply for the S Group positions. Among 140 Finnish cooks, only one of them accepted an offer from the S Group; all the others had various excuses not to accept: didn’t want to work in shifts that might include evenings or weekends, didn’t know anything about exotic cuisine and could not be bothered learning, etc. At that point, Opteam informed the employment office of their findings and immediately got their perfect justification for recruiting abroad. Result: about 20 cooks brought in from the Philippines, all speaking perfect English and all wiling to work in shifts, all perfectly justified from a legal standing, because they had made sure to contact all unemployed Finnish cooks first.
In a situation where the True Finns would be a part of the ruling coalition, even such a justification would not be enough to import cooks from abroad. Instead, the unwilling Finnish cooks would be told to either take the S Group’s offer or face the prospect of loosing their employment benefits for unwillingness to find gainful employment.
Do you really think that Halla-aho and the True Finns are going to bring that “dose of badly needed pragmatism to this country?”
Many of Halla-aho’s followers belong to Suomen Sisu, a neo-fascist organisation. The ragings of James Hirvisaari, a close ally of Halla-aho, speaks of ethnicities like he were still living in the 1930s.
One of the problems, in my opinion, with Finland is that some still live and justify their identity with the teachings of eugenics. These wise tales which were used by the Nazis to justify their crimes were never properly challenged in Finland. We just protected them with the help of our fear of the outside world.
The asylum numbers have dropped because the number of applications from EU countries has dropped in large numbers .But the numbers of applications from countries outside the EU has not dropped enough over the last two years, and as the number of those given asylum status are only small percentage compared to those given residence permits shows that the asylum system is still being abused as an entry point into Finland.
So Jussi Halla-aho was right is saying that Finland still needs to tighten its asylum laws because there has not been enough of a drop in applications from outside the EU which shows that abuse of the Finnish asylum system is still taking place.
Hi EU non EU, or True Finns. The story in Suomen Kuvalehti claims that the number of refugees in Finland has grown fourfold between 2007 and 2009, according to Halla-aho. The question is the following: what picture does this give of the situation in this country? Why is this such a big deal? Is it a big deal because Halla-aho and his followers would like Finland not to take or very few refugees. This also rides on the assumption that refugees are “welfare shoppers” (Kari Rajamäki, SDP). If it were up to him, refugees would suffer in Finland the same fate as in Greece.
As I mentioned: So what if they refugee numbers have grown. But the interesting thing is where you compare when using statistics to drive home your point. 2007 saw one of the lowest amount of refugees. This means that anything compared from that year would “soar” fourfold.
So he uses these tricks to drive home another message: Tighten our asylum laws. He asks for this but misleads us with his interpretation of statistical information.
EU non EU: What you say does not really make sense. Do you see any country within the EU which are in the same situation as Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan etc? Quite logical that more people apply from those countries for asylum.
Figures from the Finnish Meteorological Institute indicate that the average annual temperature recorded at the Kaisaniemi weather station has increased by about 2 degrees Celsius over the last 150 years.
The government of Finland has about as much control over the number of asylum seekers in any year as it has over the number of hours of sunshine recorded at Kaisaniementie 6.
The number of spontaneous applications for asylum submitted to Finland mainly depends on the geopolitical climate and on travel routes. The ability of the Finnish government to prevent civil war or varying degrees of political oppression in various parts of the world is quite minimal indeed. How, for example, would Halla-aho persuade certain Chinese regional authorities to desist from persecuting religious minorities? Does he propose that Finnair should abandon its Gateway to the East policy? That would give Stephen Elop another justification for relocating his company to a more genuinely international setting.
EU non EU
As a rule of thumb, about two-thirds of spontaneous asylum seekers end up staying in Finland for one reason or another.
One significant reason of this kind is that there is no viable State that is prepared to take the asylum seeker back. In any non-voluntary repatriation a Finnish official must accompany the expelled alien to the destination. This is not possible without the explicit consent of the receiving State, not least because the Finnish State as employer is responsible for the health and safety of the accompanying official. This has been the ongoing situation with respect to Somalia for several years. Perhaps Halla-aho is willing to escort a failed asylum-seeker to Mogadishu. Then we might find out if anyone in Finland misses him enough to pay the ransom.
Yes, that sounds like a fair suggestion. Since he believes asylum seekers are seeking refugee status for the wrong reasons, he can tke them back to Mogadishu since there is no reason for these people to leave the embattled capital.
“The interesting question to ask about Halla-aho’s claim is a big “so what?” What if the amount of refugees has risen?”
Well some people seams to think differently…
http://www.yle.fi/uutiset/news/2011/02/committee_wants_to_tighten_refugee_family_reunion_rules_2352548.html
“More changes are not necessary as the current government has already tightened the rules, according to the Interior Ministry’s report. A majority of the politicians on the Administration Committee think otherwise. They believe that Finland should implement more measures included in the EU directive on family reunions, in order to ensure Finland does not become attractive for asylum seekers. “
–Well some people seams to think differently…
It’s pretty interesting that few if any speak in the public about the POSITIVE aspects of family reunification. If you have refugees or immigrants, the family is the first way to build a strong and lasting social networks. This is positive for society on a number of fronts. For one it would be a deterrent on crime.
Enrique,
Every Finnish political party from Left to Right has some eugenically motivated racist bastards among its members. This feature is not exclusive to the True Finns. My main point, just like the one of Justice Demon, is that letting this country’s politicians shoot themselves in the foot is the best strategy we have for the Finnish mentality to ever regain some sanity. In other words, the day that this country loses its access to foreign labor, Finns will have to start accepting responsibility for their own inability to maintain their economy.
Let’s face it: whether it involves “menial” labor like cleaners or cooks at restaurants of the S Group, the best international talent that Nokia needs to outperform its global competitors or growth Finnair routes towards exotic countries, much of that is dependent on Finland having access to foreign labor and foreing markets. If populist eugenic politicians are dumb enough to cut companies’ access to those, it will force Finns to accept the entire responsibility for their own failure, since there won’t be any foreigners left to blame.
–Every Finnish political party from Left to Right has some eugenically motivated racist bastards among its members.
True, but these guys are playing solely the anti-immigration drum. Let’s look at all the parties and take the most reactive of the bunch:
Social Democats = Kari Rajamäki
Kokoomus = Wille Rydman
Center =?
Greens = ?
RKP = ?
KD = ?
Vasemmistoliitto = ?
Enrique, First: True Finns… again? For a taxi party which won’t win even 15 seats because polls are only polls, you do write a lot about them, don’t you?
Second: You are probably the only person in Finland who thinks that refugees are a good idea. Even the Greens already said that Finland should help them wherever they are.
Are you worried about what we write about your party? Another thing you can mark me down for is the implosion, which has already began within the True Finns. You cannot create anything concrete and lasting when your only plan is to attack some of the most defenseless people in society. The majority of Finns are smarter than what those guys have to offer. But I am in the dark: What are they offering to Finland apart from bashing refugees and immigrants?
I mentioned Muutos 2011 being a “taxi party.” But can five True Finns MPs fit in a London taxi? Yes.
“…about your party? “
My party? Wow I’m honoured…
“…some of the most defenseless people in society.”
Well you should go to Malmo on a Friday night when they are practicing their national sport to see how defenceless they are.
Or maybe your should tell this to her parents looking them in the eyes…
http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/artikkeli/Raiskattu+teinitytt%C3%B6+ja+poliisi+joutuivat+hiv-vaaraan/1135263677178
As part of their election manifesto the true Finns wanted to tighten family renunciation laws to reduce asylum seekers number . Now we have the government committee which is saying the same thing even without the influence of the True Finns . So what separates the polices of the True Finns which you seem to think their asylum polices are extreme, and ridiculous and not sensible compared to the ruling governments views on asylum laws, because it seems to be that the True Finns and government are both coming to the same conclusion and want sensible solutions to this problem.
At the moment Norway and Sweden still take more asylum seekers than Finland but over the last few years this number has dropped compared to the numbers of the previous years. This would explain why the numbers of asylum seekers in Finland has increased over the last 2-3 years as this was the knock on effect of Sweden and Norways change in asylum policies so Finland now has to toughen their asylum laws to bring them in line with other countries as to stop them being the number one destination for asylum seekers coming into the EU
But this is irrelevant to the debate because how many asylum seekers another country takes does not have any relevance to the numbers of asylum seekers Finland takes.It s just a act of desperation (and not a good one) to the confuse the asylum issue
“But this is irrelevant to the debate because how many asylum seekers another country takes does not have any relevance to the numbers of asylum seekers Finland takes.”
Maybe not, we could use the number of seekers Iceland is taking.
And if we want to talk about Sweden, no long ago the Swedish government has urged other European countries to help them with number of asylum seekers they were getting. They phase they used was “share the burden”. So I wonder, if asylum seekers is that great idea as this blog wants us to believe why did Sweden use the word “burden”? Why didn’t they call the courtiers to share the assets, or joys, or even the enrichment?
Because Sweden utopia liberal dream became a living nightmare and a burden on its society instead of a uplifting experience on its society
Off course if a country is taking less asylum seekers then we should look to them for inspiration
which Finland seems to be doing now by following the lead of other countries .
But to use the argument that other countries take more so we should not take less is not really a sensible argument, because those who take more ,took even more, and they will take even less, so this needs to be looked at to see how this will affect Finland (which it is now hence the reason for tougher asylum laws which have been passed and which will be passed over the year or the next).
On the subject of Scandinavian asylum laws:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00y8vk4
–Because Sweden utopia liberal dream became a living nightmare and a burden on its society instead of a uplifting experience on its soci
Yes, when immigrants and refugees started to come to Sweden in the 1970s, they contributed to the economy. Or are you telling me that the hundreds of thousands of Finns that went there were a bunch of loafers? Sweden reaped the fruits of their labor because they knew how.
EU non EU, since you are a True Finn, are you also in favor that Finland should leave the EU?
I think those who argue that Finland should take more seekers because others are doing, would agree that Finns should drive much faster and more dangerously, break more traffic laws and drink a lot before driving, wouldn’t they? Other countries have a bigger number of traffic related death than Finland has.
Here is a good example of the usual whining about how bad it is because we have the privilege to offer asylum to people in need. And the solution? Do away with our international treaties that we have signed.
I am proud of Finland, or any country that still has the ability to be an example to others. Helping others is a human social trait.
Do you reall grasp what are refugees and immigration? From new people that come to our society we can gain new leaders and model citizens.
But Sweden also has a larger population so you need to adjust the percentage of the population with the number of Asylum seekers per head .Its no good saying that Sweden takes more but with the large population the numbers could be around the same amount in Finland when you adjust the population to the numbers and find the per head statics.
Its not really a good argument to defend asylum as its flawed as it only takes in account the numbers of asylum seekers and not the population, as one of the issues which comes with asylum is can the host country cope with the demands of asylum seekers one example is larger families and their housing needs , this is one of the reasons Finland wants to tighten family asylum laws because Finland’s social housing needs are designed around the two children practice and not the 5 or 6 children practice which is causing Finland problems in dealing with this problem. And the sensible and most cost effective method on the housing issue would be to halt the 5 or 6 children practice into Finland
Privilege for you, for Finland it’s a curse.
“Or are you telling me that the hundreds of thousands of Finns that went there were a bunch of loafers?…From new people that come to our society we can gain new leaders and model citizens.”
That’s the problem with you, generalizing again. The facts that some groups of immigrants are assets doesn’t make it all groups assets. Cultures are different, some are good , some not quite. Also group of immigrants are different, some help, some don’t.
Tony always trying to turn things around never reading nor understanding what people write. In your world people are different. Isn’t that the way you see people of different ethnic backgrounds in Brazil? What’s the argument… The poor are poor because they are lazy.
You talk about about Finland should be a country which helps people but your comments seem to suggest you do not think there would be no negative impact to the Finnish population by helping people, but you must be aware that this is not the case . So the question is how do you deal with the reality of the problems of immigration and how long does it take for you to go into denial over theses problems .
Because on this blog time and time again you are proved wrong or you arguments do not hold ground in 21st century Europe and your views are as far away from the opinion of the majority as possible but you seem to carry on with this charade.
I am not being nasty I am very serious because I would like to know how your mind works because its beyond me how anyone can think like you..
–I am not being nasty I am very serious because I would like to know how your mind works because its beyond me how anyone can think like you..
Make up your mind: Are you True Finn or anti-EU or both? From what you write it is pretty clear.
“In your world people are different.”
Yes, we are, not genetically but ethnically. I think you just answered this yourself “…people of different ethnic backgrounds…”
Some ethnic backgrounds can coexist peacefully and create a constructive synergy, some just can’t. I said many times, you really should stop generalizing.
Tony, the social world was never flat.
–We expected at least a sensible debate from host of the blog no matter what side of the argument which we take, but frankly how you debate your side of the argument and always spin it to stop yourself being put on the spot is I am sorry to say this again is pathetic.
Goodbye EU non EU.
-“Finland would stop pretending that it has any humanitarian streak whatsoever and it would stop accepting immigrants that it’s factually unable to integrate.”
Since when it is task of Finland to integrate the immigrants and not task of immigrants to integrate themselves?
Martin, can you make someone learn something they do not put effort to themselves?
Of course you can’t. Same with integration. If immigrants do not work to integrate themselves, there is nothing Finland or Finns can do.
You are, just like Enrique, barking at the wrong tree. You should be piling up the blame on immigrants, because they are only ones who can integrate themselves.
Pushing around the old myths? That (1) immigrants-refugees don’t want to integrate; (2) The host society is teeming with opportunities and accepts newcomers with open arms; and (3) there is an effective integration program in place. The truth is that in many countries the host society has done dear little and when things don’t work out, the politicians start to blame the immigrants and refugees for not integrating. Your point of view has major holes.
Tiwaz, you dumbass, we’ve already told you several times: immigrants WANT to integrate and WANT to put efforts towards learning Finnish and towards finding a job. This country simply doesn’t have enough resources to teach them Finnish (more applicants than there is space available for Finnish courses, in most cities), it tries to find something wrong with their qualifications as an excuse for refusing their job applications, plus idiots like you who don’t know a single immigrant keep on stirring the same old clichés.
PS: it is also idiots like you who turn down Finns who have several degrees and plenty of experience working abroad, simply because their degrees and experience were acquired in a country other than Finland. Why? Because idiots like you have a fear of the unknown and a distrust of anything foreign.
Greetings Martin-Éric, it is people like Tiwaz who give immigrants and refugees a bad name by spreading lies and stereotypes. Imagine generalizing that immigrants are lazy! I think that is pretty incredible! You can dislike immigrants but you cannot blame them for being lazy.
Martin-Éric
Tiwaz is our resident fascist, named after a symbol used on the flag of Finnish neo-Nazis and on the handbook of the Hitler Youth. She says that this is all a coincidence, but she refuses to disown this agenda.
I’m with Indiana.
Justice Demon,
Heck, the agenda itself only vaguely talks about deporting those that the system cannot integrate. As it happens, those unemployed Finnish cooks in the above Opteam anecdote fit the bill, so we might as well deport them too. *chuckles*
As it so happens, a very Finnish politician also says that we’re not prepared to integrate anyone:
http://mediaseuranta.blogspot.com/2011/02/suomitv-europarlamentaarikko.html
Hi Martin-Éric, thank you for the link, which I had read. So the two biggest fallacies are: (1) immigrants are not willing to adapt; (2) the society has an effective integration program.
If #2 does not happen, the best thing to do is to blame the immigrants.