One of the matters that cultural diversity will bring to Finland is challenge the very myths and views of itself especially on the ethnic front.
Even though Finns have created a well-functioning society founded on social justice, these values have basically applied to Finns. Apart from its geographic remoteness form the rest of Europe, some Finns have emphasized in the previous century their cultural and linguistic uniqueness through the hush-hush acknowledgement of “racial hygiene.”
A good example of this is the professor of social policy Heikki Waris, who wrote in the 1950s: “When conditions in Finland are compared with those elsewhere, for instance in central and southern European countries with their many kinds of racial mixes and all the associated unmanageable social problems, the racial unity of our nation must be seen as a great source of strength.”
Contrary to other parts of the world, “race and language” were the driving forces of our independence as well. This fear, and in many cases hatred, of the Russians even unified the Whites and Reds from the Winter War (1939-40). In the post-war period, it gained further strength through Finland’s geopolitical isolation until its full political and economic integration with Western Europe came in 1995 through EU membership.
If one wants an explanation for the deep-rooted prejudice and racism that is still alive and kicking among some Finns, one does not have to go far to find the reasons behind this societal malice. Our history and near-consensus interpretation of it reveals why.
Matters on the so-called multicultural debate in Finland are still in such a diaper stage that even our political leadership takes special care not to step on the foot of those that make racism respectable instead of defending those that are the victims of their attacks.
The highly one-sided debate in Finland on immigrants is seen as a threat by some Finns because new members of our society bring different points of views. As Finland becomes more multicultural demographically, some of our future historians, sociologists, writers, poets, politicians and others will challenge the very myths that were created in the previous century.
Our new identity and the history we write of ourselves as a nation in this century (new myths?) will be based on totally new points of departure. I for one believe it will be a very rich and inspiring debate that will strengthen our country. Given enough time, it will challenge more forcefully than ever those myths that keep the ogre of racism alive in our society.
It will be the awakening of a new Finland that will fit its needs as a nation in the new century.
Its njot actually to have to do anything with race, creed or politics. You look at France – try enter a French polytechnicue without a French baccalaureate or Frech education. You are just a stupid foreigner who is not “French” enough. Finland is nothing dirferent. And apparaising your postings there is nothing wrong discriminating against you for your own merits.
What professors of social policy write TODAY may only share the opinion of a tiny minority of the contemporary overall population. I don’t see how something that a social policy professor wrote in the 1950’s (!) is relevant and how it’s supposed to support you “hush-hush acknowledgement of racial hygiene.” strawman.
“the deep-rooted prejudice and racism that is still alive and kicking among some Finns”
How many is “some Finns”, is it your opinion, or based on what facts? Of course, by stretching the meaning of racism it is easy to point out that everyone is racist.
“those that make racism respectable”
So who would those be? And be careful with how you use such words as “racist”, this word is going through hyper-inflation these days.
“new members of our society bring different points of views.”
They bring much more than that. You should know after all the kind education you’ve received from Tiwaz, Tony, DeTand et al. There are awkward statistics which show that “different points of views” are not really the problem.
“It will be the awakening of a new Finland that will fit its needs as a nation in the new century.”
Pretty dreams, but how about the reality?
“prejudice and racism”
Ok, youre black man and see few bald, drunk man who are dressed on army boots, pilot coat, with finnish flag, “kiitos 1939-1944” tsirts and finnish lion necklace walking towars you?
What would you do?
–“prejudice and racism”
Since it is a public space and I am totally entitled to it I would claim a space in it. I know black people who are afraid to walk the streets at night and if they go to a bar they always do it with three people. For them, the streets of some towns in Finland are hostile places. It is shameful, no?
“They bring much more than that. You should know after all the kind education you’ve received from Tiwaz, Tony, DeTand et al. There are awkward statistics which show that “different points of views” are not really the problem.”
I would add, criminality, social unrest, economical pressure, to mention a few, but facts really does matter here. Last week Prager said something that, IMHO, summaries the multicultural left mindset.
“When people are very committed to something, the facts become secondary to the principal that they care most about.”
And they are very committed to change the makeup of Finland. The price that need to be paid, and the Finnish people’s opinion is totally secondary.
“It will be the awakening of a new Finland that will fit its needs as a nation in the new century.”
Honestly? I wouldn’t hold my breath, just in case…
Maybe this could help to banish some myths…
http://www.hs.fi/politiikka/artikkeli/Tammi+j%C3%A4tt%C3%A4%C3%A4+islamilaisen+puolueen+terrorismikiistan+vuoksi/1135251598554
I wonder if those who criticize Israel’s attacks but don’t say a word about suicide bombs are also banned from the party…
Every group will have bad people.
The question about any group it’s not whether or not there are bad any bad people in it, it’s how the rest of the group acts against, or not against, the bad within it.
That’s the determining moral factor.
Enrigue you are racist and have prejudices. You assumed black guy was in danger because of others clothes and probably also assumed others were white.
“It is shameful, no?”
Are you trying to say that we should share some kind of collective shame because of what others do?
So with the same logic you must really also demand shame from muslim immigrants for their huge proportional share of sexual assaults (which is a proven fact, unlike people’s feeling of hostility which you mentioned!)
–Are you trying to say that we should share some kind of collective shame because of what others do?
Violence is a matter that society should have zero tolerance. My point was that the idyllic Finnish countryside images and out values are threatened when people act this way. There is no place nor justification for violence never mind a black person walking at night and having to fear that he might be a target of hostile attack.
-“Violence is a matter that society should have zero tolerance.”
Then there must be zero tolerance for disporportionate rape statistics of muslims. How you suggest we go forth with making this zero tolerance known and felt in their communities?
-“y point was that the idyllic Finnish countryside images and out values are threatened when people act this way.”
But when certain immigrant groups are disproportionately criminal it has no effect at all, and we must understand this and ignore this disproportionate crime because they are from such bad origins.
-“There is no place nor justification for violence never mind a black person walking at night and having to fear that he might be a target of hostile attack.”
Again you are drawing sweeping conclusions from paranoia of one black guy.
Is there justification for your slandering of Finnish people and society if your black friend is paranoid nut who would be scared no matter what?
Does he have some JUSTIFICATION for his fear?
I have justification for fear of having my family attacked by immigrants, as those things are disproportionately common. Specially rapes.
Hervanta last week or so. 17 year old girl raped by 2 men who did not speak Finnish.
Can black guy make same claim? Is his fear real or paranoia? Because this paranoia is very real, and only made more common by some people screaming how Finns are evil and racist.
“Violence is a matter that society should have zero tolerance.”
Should this “society” include political parties representing ethnic minorities?
–Should this “society” include political parties representing ethnic minorities?
I don’t understand your question, Tony.
“prejudice and racism”
Yep the usual, let’s see what Water Williams, a successful black American, has to say about it, shall we?
BTW, another black person who is feed up of many commentators making a nice living from being constantly ‘outraged’ on their behalf.
And he also debunk many of theories posted here. Please pay particularly attention to the education and criminality paragraphs.
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5655
“For the most part, white bigots are no longer respected among whites and I look forward to the day when black bigots are no longer respected among blacks.”
“When one says that race is no longer the problem it once was, it is not the same as saying that there are not major problems that confront a large segment of the black population”
“Grossly fraudulent education is a major problem but it has nothing to do with racial discrimination as evidenced by the fact that the worse education received is in the very cities where blacks dominate the political structure.”
“Crime is a major problem but it has nothing to do with racial discrimination, particularly in light of the fact that blacks commit most of the violent crime in America and well over 90 percent of their victims are black.”
“Americans should disavow and not fall prey to the racial rope-a-dope being played on us by the nation’s race hustlers.“
–BTW, another black person who is feed up of many commentators making a nice living from being constantly ‘outraged’ on their behalf.
Tony, I agree totally with you. Only a black man, a Somali in Finland, knows what racism is all about. We are white and have no idea what the lo-down is. So, if you here it from a black man you should listen to it very closely.
And if you have some time have a look at this other article by Water Williams, “The racism of diversity”.
If I didn’t know him I wouldn’t believe he is a black person, but it looks like the more successful the person is, regardless his/her race, the more they reject the multicultural double-standards.
http://economics.gmu.edu/wew/articles/09/TheRacismOfDiversity.htm
–Colleges and universities with racially preferential admittance policies are doing a great disservice to blacks in another, mostly ignored, way. By admitting poorly prepared blacks, they are helping to conceal the grossly fraudulent education the blacks receive at the K through 12 grades.
I think, Tony, you should read this carefully. If you want real equality in society you must create it – that means offering people from other groups the same opportunities. We don’t have that kind of a society so we create shortcuts. I disagree with some of the things he says but I don’t think he agrees with your conservative argument – that we are all equal when we are born but then we are unequal after that.
Thomas Sowell, another my list (it’s getting bigger). Well apparently only failed Somalis believe that their doom is result of “prejudice and racism”…
http://www.capmag.com/article.asp?ID=5601
“For those who are interested in facts– and these obviously do not include President Obama– there has been a serious study of racial profiling in a book titled “Are Cops Racist?” by Heather Mac Donald. Her analysis of the data shows how this issue has long been distorted beyond recognition by politics.”
“The racial profiling issue is a great vote-getter. And if it polarizes the society, that is a price that politicians are willing to pay in order to get votes. Academics who run black studies departments, as Professor Henry Louis Gates does, likewise have a vested interest in racial paranoia.”
“For “community organizers” as well, racial resentments are a stock in trade.”
“What does a community organizer do? What he does not do is organize a community. What he organizes are the resentments and paranoia within a community, directing those feelings against other communities, from whom either benefits or revenge are to be gotten, using whatever rhetoric or tactics will accomplish that purpose”
Question though: What has USA have to do with Finland?
Lack of geography education doesn’t make the fact any different that these two countries have very little comparable. Its not even comparing apples and oranges, its comparing sesame seeds and a pumpkin.
And you know Tony, you have to understand theres a whole industry already in Finland revolving with a “immigration industry”. It all revolves around creating a shelter job for someone who cannot get a real job in any industry and getting the government in the end to pick the tab. So for example screaming “racism” daily is bringing some people their daily bread. You follow the money Tony, you’ll see a pattern. After all its your money.
–It all revolves around creating a shelter job for someone who cannot get a real job in any industry and getting the government in the end to pick the tab.
Is that what you do, Henrik? What is your recipe? Throw away all the programs? Why don’t we do that? It would be a great idea and let’s assimilate people by force or banish them from this country if they don’t conform. That is the right way, I am certain, to do things. The problem, in my opinion, is that the majority of Finns are dictating policy and there is very little input from immigrants or their children.
“The problem, in my opinion, is that the majority of Finns are dictating policy and there is very little input from immigrants or their children.”
Thats also known as democracy.
“I think, Tony, you should read this carefully”
Well I did, did you? First he address the problem…
“Grossly fraudulent education is a major problem but it has nothing to do with racial discrimination as evidenced by the fact that the worse education received is in the very cities where blacks dominate the political structure.”
Then he criticize the racist “solution” of positive discrimination (or whatever it’s called in US). The guy is spot on.
“your conservative argument – that we are all equal when we are born but then we are unequal after that.”
My argument !?!?!? Well… That’s why I like more writing than speaking, so everything we say is on the record. But anyway, good try mate…
–But anyway, good try mate…
Instead of crying how bad things are, why doesn’t he give any solutions? That, in my opinion, is a poor editorial. I wonder why many of the people don’t give us a solution on what to do. Or should I read that in between the lines?
“So, if you here it from a black man you should listen to it very closely.”
I do, do you?
However I think there is a difference between the 4 blacks and 2 Muslims I have been quoting and the Somalis you do.
First, the first group are made up of people of integrity. The second, as soon as they set foot in Finland, they start lying. Age, origin, family ties, you name it, they lie about. And please the argument of a tiny minority doesn’t work anymore, if so the Finnish government wouldn’t spend money and change the law to try to tackle the problem.
Second, the first group speak on the record. The second only behind anonymity.
Now it’s up to each one of us here decide with group has more credibility.
–I do, do you?
You would not even accept an EU survey on what Somalis thought about living in Finland. In this specific case, you brushed the problem under the rug and argued “race card.”
DeTant, you are dead right mate, and more, the “anti-discrimination” industry. Hannu posted about the Muslin chef who sued the MET for asking him to cook bacon, but it emerged that he eats sausage and bacon once a month. I wonder how many millions of pounds bogus “discrimination” cases, like this one, have cost. But you dare to ask and in no time you are a xenophobic-racist-nazi. Well, then if that is what we are, what can I do?
And, of course, tells that minorities play the race card is moronic. But as Prager says “be on the left means you never have to say sorry”.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Enrique asks me again if I want to change our laws, but it’s very clear that I’m not saying that. The problems is not the laws but how they have been perverted by the PC Gestapo, opportunistic politicians and greed “lawyers”.
Now look at how many memorable ethnic minority people I have already posted here saying, “hey, stop riding on our back”.
–And, of course, tells that minorities play the race card is moronic. But as Prager says “be on the left means you never have to say sorry”.
On the contrary. At least you can trust what a conservative says because he says it outright, even though his arguments sometimes lack the component of how to solve sensibly the matters. Some don’t give any solutions except for rambling and inciting fear because (a) they don’t have any and (b) because their solutions would put them under a dubious light.
When I mentioned about the laws I truly think that you do because your opinions and points of views are incompatible with them. You appear to cock your rifle every time you hear the word “Mulsim” and then pretend to accept equality and religious freedom. Sorry, Tony, but it does not work that way.
–Now look at how many memorable ethnic minority people I have already posted here saying, “hey, stop riding on our back”.
I would not call them “memorable” but public figures. And hey, how many of them offer us an alternative? If these people know the score, why can’t they give any solutions? If you are against something you should be able to offer some alternatives. I as well as others would be interested in reading them.
“Should this “society” include political parties representing ethnic minorities?
I don’t understand your question, Tony.”
We have already the “Swedish peoples’ party” which is first and foremost a “language party” watching out for the special minority status of the Finland-Swedes.
“Only a black man, a Somali in Finland, knows what racism is all about. We are white and have no idea what the lo-down is. So, if you here it from a black man you should listen to it very closely.”
Why should I listen to some stupid foreigner? I am not going into their country telling them how to live their lives either. So rude!
–Why should I listen to some stupid foreigner? I am not going into their country telling them how to live their lives either. So rude!
With comments like these you should win some Noble Peace Price for cultural understanding. Shall we all chip in and recommend you for such a coveted distinction?
“It would be a great idea and let’s assimilate people by force or banish them from this country if they don’t conform. ”
Well if the option is having stupid people slandering Finland then I do not really see any problem with the idea.
–Well if the option is having stupid people slandering Finland then I do not really see any problem with the idea.
Touché, Henrik. Another gem comment of yours. Tony seconds your solution to the immigrant problem.
“But you dare to ask and in no time you are a xenophobic-racist-nazi. Well, then if that is what we are, what can I do?”
Problem is – like in the story of the “boy who called wolf” – when you then get an actual case of racism/discrimination (just witnessed one this past weekend) the thing is all these “anti-discriminationists” have discredited the whole issue so nobody listens to any complaints as real ones. *That* is more of a problem in my not so humble opinion.
“It would be a great idea and let’s assimilate people by force or banish them from this country if they don’t conform. ”
“Well if the option is having stupid people slandering Finland then I do not really see any problem with the idea.”
You are right DeTant, sometimes we need to choose the lesser of two evils…
So you don’t think conservatives are giving solution? Really? For me, both Williams and Sowell, are quiet clear. Stop blaming minorities failures on others and stop the racism hysteria. Quite simple.
They are all against overprotecting of minorities and double-standards, and all offer an alternative to it: stop it.
My opinions about the law are very simple. Let’s follow it by book. You can’t get a job with a more qualified Somali is applying for, nether can he in the opposite direction. It’s so simple, I don’t understand all the fuzz.
My attitude when I hear the word “Muslim” is not different that yours when you hear the word “Perussuomalaiset”.
I do accept the EU survey, for me that’s what it’s, a survey on what people, under anonymity who don’t need to substantiate their clams, believe the reality is. Wasn’t I who use it as proof that racism is alive and kicking in Finland. And I can’t brush the “problem” under the rug because without real substance we don’t know what the problem is or even if exists at all. For Don Quixote dragons did exist.
But yes, for me there is a difference between someone who say things on the record, like you for example, and people who does it behind anonymity.
Besides all the different ideologies that liberals and conservatives believe, IMHO the greatest difference between us is that conservatives lives in the world that it is, liberals live in the world that it could be.
In a such joyful season nothing could make me more sad. The price we pay to have such “enriched “ multicultural society.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/6866345/God-rest-ye-merry-ladies-and-gentlemen…-Christmas-carols-given-PC-rewrite.html
“Verses are being changed by clergy and teachers to remove supposedly chauvinistic references to men, sons and kings, making them “gender inclusive”.
Even the word white is being censored for fear of racism accusations, while some schools and churches no longer sing about the virgin Mary.”
“With comments like these you should win some Noble Peace Price for cultural understanding. Shall we all chip in and recommend you for such a coveted distinction?”
How about insolent beggars in my coountry chip in paying taxes instead of making demands first? Its my country – my culture – not theirs. They are guests in my house – since when did the strangers begging charity to spend the night start making demands? Joseph and Mary if they were modern asylum seekers would probably have complained the straws were dusty.
“You appear to cock your rifle every time you hear the word “Mulsim” and then pretend to accept equality and religious freedom”
How about every time you say “Finnish” you equate that with “racism” somehow makes you a lesser cock?
Sorry but I just can’t take this out of my head. I think this article from the Telegraph is a great example of what we have been talking about here.
I’m ready to bet f you run a survey in the UK today asking black people if they are offended by the word black in some Christmas carols, the vast majority will say… WHAT?!?!?!? Are you out of your freaking mind?
So, from where does this come from? From the delusional leftist multicultural mind. People who are so oblivious to the reality that are able to create such anomaly in the name of the holy political correctness.
I just can’t stress enough how much I disgust these people.
Enrique, do you understand now what Williams and Sowell were talking about? Do you understand that if you guys keep hunting ghost, instead of helping minorities, you are in fact making their life worse?
I have a question. How many white Britons will blame blacks for these changes? If I was a black living in the UK today I would tell the multicultural left… with friends like you, who need enemies?
To all my migrant tales fellows, time to relax and have a laugh…
Capitol Steps is an American political parody group from DC. They have performed for 4 US presidents and are very democratic about who they take the piss. Bush, Obama, Palin, Cheney, Pelosi, you name it, they have it.
This is a track from their last album, “Barackin’ around the Christmas tree”, a Christmas compilation. How appropriate…
I hope you enjoy it.
http://kiwi6.com/upload/hotlink?id=6849pfvu
“And I can’t brush the “problem” under the rug because without real substance we don’t know what the problem is or even if exists at all.”
Tony that is the issue with surveys such as whats the one… “corruption index” that always had Finland in the top 1-2 places as they “asked people” and of course nobody would fess up.
Regarding racism, lets take two 15 year old teenagers, Antti and Ali making their way home from the railway station to ghetto central.
1. There is no money in the bank account. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
2. They are in the store loitering around beers, the guard tells them to piss off. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
3. They are at the station and the police tells them to go home or get arrested. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
4. They get smurfed on the train by ticket inspectors. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
5. They get home and meet up with local girls. The girls tell them to go play with themselves. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
6. The local sausage stand has just closed before they get there. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
7. They get to their building and share a smoke outside. And old lady yells at them for making noise. Antti is pissed off. For Ali this is racism.
8. They get home and they get an earful for being out late….
Tell me can Ali claim “racism” also for the last case if he is say adopted or from a multiethnic family?
“To all my migrant tales fellows, time to relax and have a laugh…”
I agree. Have a happy whatever, or if you are a pagan, it was yesterday.
Enrigue is common leftist. freedom of speech is good, if others dont disagree! equality is good, if that dont insult muslims! freedom of not hurting is good, doesnt apply to male babies!
All people are equal, even deaf and blind! Where is our blind police! Blinds are discriminated!
–Enrigue is common leftist.
Am I? After the Soviet Union came down in flames, it is a bit passé to speak in terms of left and right even though we do we continue to do so. I hope you enjoy Christmas if you are a Christian and that 2010 will bring you much success.
Why you hope non-christians don’t enjoy christmas, why do you segregate based on one’s religion? I’m not a christian yet I have so far enjoyed Christmas tremendously, and plan to do so in the future.
Amigo Enrique, Que Dios bendiga ustedes y toda tu familia.
Feliz Navidad a todos.
Feliz Natal para todos.
Happy Christmas to all.
Hyvää joulua kaikille.
Amigo Tony, felices fiestas to you as well. May 2010 bring you and your much success and happiness.
“After the Soviet Union came down in flames, it is a bit passé to speak in terms of left and right even though we do we continue to do so.”
And you keep talking about far right… make your mind.
Also you have to notice that what soviet union tried you are advocating, its proven to fail.
–And you keep talking about far right… make your mind. Also you have to notice that what soviet union tried you are advocating, its proven to fail.
You are right about me using far right. But you are wrong by comparing multiculturalism as a social policy with the Soviet Union. It may not be a perfect social policy but in no way can you compare it with the former USSR.
Why not? You compare us to nazi germany?
Marking fail of your ideal to enemy, enemy of state “neuvostovastainen” = racist. Check
Marking your enemy as mentally ill = phobia. Check.
Making laws to shut enemy = check.
Peace for all = ussr, 60,000,000 died and still germany is biggest bad…
USSR didnt happen because humans werent developed enough, Check.
Move people from area to area, check.
Re”programming” people because they dont know their “good”, check.
Work to all with goverment help, check.
–Why not? You compare us to nazi germany?
I did not. I wasn’t even born in the 1940s when Finland became a cobelligerent (the official interpretation) of Nazi Germany. With respect to the former Soviet Union, the reason why there was never a Nuremberg in Moscow is because they were on the side of the Allies. I am certain that the purges of the 1930s by Stalin were the first crack that led to the destruction of the USSR.
Oh i forgot your nature preservation and rights to animals, thats so 1930. Hitler did it.
You didnt? why then all of your “far right” “so 1930” and other bullshit when you have no other way to answer without telling youre wrong?
“I am certain that the purges of the 1930s by Stalin were the first crack that led to the destruction of the USSR.”
No, that was free speech what you oppose and reason why current power are afraid about internet and does everything it can to shut it down with laws and suing.
I oppose free speech? Insulting other groups that are thousands of kilometers away, and their members in your country where they are excluded through high unemployment and discrimination is pure cowardice. It has nothing to do with free speech.
So e.g. telling that earth is lot older than 6000 years or telling its 6000 year old is not included in free speech?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuaAt1YtfaI&feature=PlayList&p=349AF73BCFA3224D&index=15&playnext=2&playnext_from=PL
There you see finnish values and traditions insulted, should i sue?
Hiljaisuus on myöntymisen merkki.